Posts by Doug Mason

52

Bart Ehrman: Paul Viewed Jesus Christ as an Angel.

by Emery in

in his upcomming book, "how jesus became god" bart ehrman has a new view on how paul viewed jesus.

since i am a huge bart ehrman fan i am a member of his blog site, http://ehrmanblog.org link to direct blog entry: http://ehrmanblog.org/pauls-view-of-jesus-as-an-angel-for-members/.

there he made a recent blog entry where he argues that paul viewed jesus to be an angel according to galations 4:14. .

Doug Mason

ÁrbolesdeArabia,

I did read your post and I provided a few reasons for my disagreement.

Paul claimed that he did not receive any of his instructions from any human. He claimed that he spoke with no one for 3 years after his conviction regarding Jesus Christ, that he spent 14 years without making any contact with Jerusalem, and when he gave them his gospel message, they added nothing. He speaks quite contemptuously of them (James, Cephas, and John). When the 4th century Church at Rome decided which writings they would canonise (currently our NT), they wrote James out of the picture, even though he was Jesus' full brother and leader of the Jerusalem community.

Paul indicated that his teachings came directly to him from the Lord, without any human involvement. Either he is deluded, telling a lie, or he is honest.

Paul could not have read the Gospels since they were written after his death and re-edited during subsequent centuries. He created the ideas and others followed, some of which I mentioned in my previous response.

Did Paul invent Christianity?

Doug

52

Bart Ehrman: Paul Viewed Jesus Christ as an Angel.

by Emery in

in his upcomming book, "how jesus became god" bart ehrman has a new view on how paul viewed jesus.

since i am a huge bart ehrman fan i am a member of his blog site, http://ehrmanblog.org link to direct blog entry: http://ehrmanblog.org/pauls-view-of-jesus-as-an-angel-for-members/.

there he made a recent blog entry where he argues that paul viewed jesus to be an angel according to galations 4:14. .

Doug Mason

Regarding Gal 4:14, has anyone produced the chiastic structure of that passage?

Doug

52

Bart Ehrman: Paul Viewed Jesus Christ as an Angel.

by Emery in

in his upcomming book, "how jesus became god" bart ehrman has a new view on how paul viewed jesus.

since i am a huge bart ehrman fan i am a member of his blog site, http://ehrmanblog.org link to direct blog entry: http://ehrmanblog.org/pauls-view-of-jesus-as-an-angel-for-members/.

there he made a recent blog entry where he argues that paul viewed jesus to be an angel according to galations 4:14. .

Doug Mason

ÁrbolesdeArabia,

Paul did not know the accounts traditionally attributed to Mark, Matthew, Luke or John. They were all written after his death. Luke was written some 60 to 90 years after Paul had died.

Secondly, Paul explicitly states that he did not receive any of his teachings from any human source. He got them directly from the Lord, presumably in the form of visions. Thus he did not get his ideas of baptism, Last Supper, substitutionary death, resurrection, Coming, and so on from any person. They are his ideas. His opponents were the Jerusalem party led by James, Jesus' biological brother. The Jerusalem party saw Jesus as being nothing more than a human, with human parents. The birth narratives are highly ingenious creations of imaginitive minds; unfortulately, they did not collaborate and their stories seriously contradict one another.

Thirdly, Mark and Luke were Paul's adherents, and thus followed his lead. The NT Canon was set by Paul's followers, not by James' followers (Ebionites).

Doug

14

New Light on 1914

by TowerWatch in

recently someone posted a link to the watchtower article explaining why jehovahs witnesses no longer believe that jesus returned in 1914. could someone help me by posting that link again please?

thank you!.

Doug Mason

As you know, I am no apologist for the WTS. You will also know that it is not possible to pin them down because over time they slip and slide around. This, however, is my understanding. (I have been known to be wrong before):

Although the kingdom of God was set up in 1914, this does not mean the kingdom did not exist before then. The kingdom of God is eternal. It is my understanding that they say the "parousia" was a change in its operation, or focus, towards earth. It could probably be considered as a different phase in its operation.

They do not see the "parousia" as the "coming". These are two separate events. The "coming" (erchomenon) lies in the future, associated with the future Great Tribulation and Armageddon. (See WT mag of July 15, 2013)

Doug

Note that I used the word "erchomenon"; I am not certain whether they have any application for the word "apokalupsis".

2

Spanish translation is now available

by Doug Mason in

a short while ago, i prepared a study on "the watchtower" for july 15, 2013.. .

since then, several people have willingly and freely worked to produce a spanish translation of my study.. it is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/la_verdad_cambia__otra_vez___la_atalaya__15_de_julio_de_2013.pdf .

Doug Mason

suavojr,

I get your point, but you give me the opportunity to point out that the people who write the articles in the Watchtower magazine and write the books are not necessarily of the Anointed. I doubt that every member of the Writing Department is Anointed.

Doug

2

Spanish translation is now available

by Doug Mason in

a short while ago, i prepared a study on "the watchtower" for july 15, 2013.. .

since then, several people have willingly and freely worked to produce a spanish translation of my study.. it is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/la_verdad_cambia__otra_vez___la_atalaya__15_de_julio_de_2013.pdf .

Doug Mason

A short while ago, I prepared a Study on "The Watchtower" for July 15, 2013.

Since then, several people have willingly and freely worked to produce a Spanish translation of my Study.

It is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/La_Verdad_Cambia__otra_vez___La_Atalaya__15_de_Julio_de_2013.pdf

Doug

(Apologies for the formatting problem.)

5

Need Help Finding Article

by turtleturtle in

i am looking for a questions from readers in the wt.

the question was along the lines of asking why the wt promoted the stake, rather than the cross, even though history shows the romans did use the cross in executions.. the answer from the wt was along the lines of admitting that the romans did use crosses for execution, but in the area where jesus' death took place, it was commonplace to use stakes, since lumber was not readily available.. can anyone find this for me?.

Doug Mason

What's the difference when a stake is worshiped?

Doug

18

"Further clarification..."

by Dagney in

a few minutes ago, a jw, (elder's wife who for some reason still calls me 1-2 times a day to tell me about her new purse/dr's appt/what she's making for dinner/etc.

) called to tell me she saw sherri sheppard on tv talking about her new diet book.

i say, "you know she was raised a jw.

Doug Mason

Dagney,

At page 8 of that WT magazine says that "it appears" the spirit-anointed (no longer part of the FDS by the way) will survive after the initial part of the Great Tribulation has started, but will depart before it develops further in Armagedon.

Maybe you could show it to her at page 26 of my analysis at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Truth_Changes.pdf ( for the "Study" edition of the magazine)

or at page 26 of my analysis at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Truth_Changes_in_the_simplified_Watchtower.pdf ( for the "Simplified" edition of the magazine).

Please give her a copy of my analysis.

Doug

12

"The Truth Changes" with the text from the "Simplified" Edition WT

by Doug Mason in

the text i used in my analysis, "the truth changes: watchtower july 15, 2013" comes from the "study" edition of that magazine.. it is still available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/the_truth_changes.pdf.

i have now used the text from the "simplified" edition, and it is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_truth_changes_in_the_simplified_watchtower.pdf.

Doug Mason

I spent the day thinking about my long and convoluted title that I gave to this Study and how I could simplify it yet achieve my objectives. The following was and is my thought process. I am very open to correction.

I had earlier released my Study that related the text of the Study edition of that particular Watchtower magazine. I wanted the title of my Study to include the name and date of the magazine; I did this so that the web crawlers would pick it up and hence bring it up when someone searched the www for that specific magazine. I also wanted to show what I was looking at: so I included the name "The Truth Changes".

When I released the version that made use of selected texts from the "Simplified" edition (WTS description, not mine), I wanted to show that it related to the previously released Study yet at the same time I needed to indicate the reason there are two versions. So I maintained "The Truth Changes" and the date of the magazine in the title. I then added "Simplified" to show that the text came from the "Simplified" edition of that WT. The contents of each now have cross-references to one another, along with the URL where the other version can be obtained.

If the long title is bothersome, I do not mind if people make it available on their own web site using a shorter file name. However, I am the only one who may amend the contents of the file.

In the process of creating these two versions of my study, I created a file that puts the corresponding page of each edition on the same page. Quite interesting, but of course legal and ethical constraints prevent my releasing that study to the broad community.

BTW. When you compare para 6 on page 21 of each Edition ("Study" WT and "Simplified" WT) you will see that the "Study WT" writes "we may conclude", while the "Simplified WT" writes "it is clear". While one Edition is cautious ("may"), the other is not cautious ("it is clear").

Doug

12

"The Truth Changes" with the text from the "Simplified" Edition WT

by Doug Mason in

the text i used in my analysis, "the truth changes: watchtower july 15, 2013" comes from the "study" edition of that magazine.. it is still available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/the_truth_changes.pdf.

i have now used the text from the "simplified" edition, and it is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_truth_changes_in_the_simplified_watchtower.pdf.

Doug Mason

Hi,

The text I used in my analysis, "The Truth Changes: Watchtower July 15, 2013" comes from the "Study" Edition of that magazine.

It is still available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Truth_Changes.pdf

I have now used the text from the "Simplified" Edition, and it is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Truth_Changes_in_the_simplified_Watchtower.pdf

------------

I am still trying to get my head around the direction being taken by the GB. I do think they wanted to amass all power and glory in the fishpond, but in the process their pronouncements have eroded my understanding of their positions.

It had been my understanding that the GB saw itself as the sole voice speaking out on behalf of an operating "Kingdom government in heaven". I thought they saw this government composed of 144,001 spirit-anointed persons and that the total entity was in some way the FDS, with the GB being its voice.

The GB has sacked all spirit-anointed from the FDS, so does that mean there is no longer an operating "Kingdom government"? Also, the GB says that they do not get appointed over all things until some time in the future. How does this line up with their thoughts of a currently operating Kingdom Goverment?

It's beyond me how anyone could accept their fairy tales, but maybe someone could tell me what they think are the intended and unintended consquences of their latest actions. Where has my understanding gone awry?

Doug